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The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage

(üzenet: 437, Nemzeti örökségünk a KUVASZ)

Susa

Tagság: 2006-10-15 22:49:29
Tagszám: #35978
Hozzászólások: 44

318. Elküldve: 2007-06-20 14:23:53, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[126.]
Hi at all ! I think, it is good to be sceptical and critical in this matters. Particularely if it is about health clearences. And I do understand Tessie's concerns though. However, I think we should not bother to inform ourselves properly about the real situation, instead of spreading suspicion and rumours, which makes people unnecessarily confuse and concerned. An Email, a phone call to the companies concerned would help to clear. I did contact the two companies and asked them about the current situation. I got the Information that: - The prcd PRA test by Optigen is in deed patented, but ONLY in the USA - however, it is NOT patented in Europe !! So therefore, and because of the published script about the test by Optigen over here in Europe, Laboklin was allowed to legally copy that test. - Laboklin did, after their own researches,- modify that test. Right now, Laboklin is in negotiation with Optigen for working out licences and teamwork. So, this is what I got directly from the companies. Susa & Maros

[válaszok erre: #319]	[előzmény: (315) Tessie, 2007-06-19 23:24:32]

Zöldfülű

outsider13

Tagság: 2006-09-09 13:50:57
Tagszám: #34698
Hozzászólások: 1961

317. Elküldve: 2007-06-20 05:32:50, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[127.]
Hi Tessie! Thank you for your long letter. Fortunatelly my English was enough good to understand it, but in it I found only your feelings, and your guesses. My opinion is, that we don't need to know how they get their licence of the test, why could they cheeper than the other company, we must know only one thing, that they results are reliable. My feeling is, that they must be licence, and references about they results otherwise the German and Europian authorities aren't licenced these examinations. Otherwise I thing in terms of the practice of the German Kuvasz Association, whos all result came from Optigen, and now they send samples there again on a higher price. http://www.kuvasz.de/zuchtinfos.html Would you explain somebody me the reason of this practice? szerintem... bár én csak egy outsider vagyok Drágossy Zsolt leánykori névvel :) [Ezt a hozzászólást újraszerkesztették: 2007-06-20 05:49:18]

	[előzmény: (315) Tessie, 2007-06-19 23:24:32]

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Mangaman

Tagság: 2006-11-25 13:38:00
Tagszám: #37704
Hozzászólások: 584

316. Elküldve: 2007-06-20 00:13:41, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[128.]
Hi Tessie! If this is the case, it makes me sceptical about the whole thing... And by the way, all test results we had from Germany are made by Laboklin. That makes me wonder seriously. We must get some kind of guarantee about the results, otherwise it ain't worth the effort. "Minden nemzet, mely elmúlt kora emlékezetét semmivé teszi vagy semmivé lenni hagyja, saját nemzeti életét gyilkolja meg." (Kölcsey Ferenc) www.neobullterrier.com

	[előzmény: (315) Tessie, 2007-06-19 23:24:32]

Törzstag

Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

315. Elküldve: 2007-06-19 23:24:32, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[129.]
Hi Outsider, Yes, I have numerous reasons for feeling as I do about Laboklin, and I have no problem with saying so in public. However, I fear my explanation in English is going to be difficult to translate for you! For one thing, Laboklin did not do the research on the PRA test. Because of this they do not have the details about how exactly to do the test. One thing I would suggest is for you to ask Laboklin how they developed their test? Where are their veterinary scientific papers published on their test??? They will have a big problem giving you an answer because the research was done by Optigen. The veterinary scientific papers were published by the Optigen staff. Laboklin came along after Optigen published its papers from years of research by Optigen staff. Optigen then offered the PRA test based on its own research. Laboklin suddenly came up with a PRA test without doing the research that Optigen had. So where is Laboklin's proof that its test works? The proof needs to be in published veterinary scientific papers. Did Laboklin do anything other than copy Optigen's test from what was in published scientific papers? I will give you an example of a similar situation that happened in Arabian horses. Arabian horses have a lethal recessive gene for something called Severe Combined Immunodeficiency (SCID). Affected animals do not live to adulthood because they are born with no immune system and 100% of affected animals die before they reach 6 months of age. Breeding 2 carriers together results in 25% clear offspring, 50% carrier offspring, and 25% affected offspring. For years the only way to tell if you had a carrier horse was if it produced a foal that died from SCID. There was no carrier test. But in 1997 that changed. After years of study, researchers at the University of Texas developed a DNA carrier test for SCID and published scientific articles on the test. They also patented the test. Then they licensed this test to a company called Vetgen (http://www.vetgen.com/equine-strategies.html). Vetgen had to buy expensive equipment and supplies to run the tests, and it also had to pay royalties to the University of Texas. So the test was expensive for Arabian horse owners. Another company saw this and came along after the test was announced and the scientifc papers were published and copied the test. Without having to pay any of the research costs, they offered the test to the public for a much lower price. Many people chose the cheaper price. The problem was that as this company did not have the details from the research, their copy was not very good. The results were NOT accurate. Their tests indicated that horses were clear of SCID when in fact they were carriers, and that horses were carriers of SCID when in fact they were clear. You can imagine the consequences of breeding animals with a possible lethal gene when the test results are not accurate. Well, soon it all ended up in a lawsuit. Vetgen sued this other company for violating the patent it had a license on. The details of the test errors by the other company came out in court. The other company got in trouble. Also, all the people who had tried to save money by using the cheaper test now had worthless test results. They had to retest their horses again with Vetgen. So, can you now see why I would not accept any test results from Laboklin? Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #316 #317 #318]	[előzmény: (313) outsider13, 2007-06-19 21:58:16]

Haladó

Susa

Tagság: 2006-10-15 22:49:29
Tagszám: #35978
Hozzászólások: 44

314. Elküldve: 2007-06-19 23:04:38, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[130.]
Hi Tessie, [quote:] The Laboklin test has not been proven to be accurate, so I would regard any dog tested by Laboklin as not tested at all. [/quote] I'll beg your pardon Tessie, but who said so ?? I am working in a animalclinic and we do work togehter with Laboklin since a long time. All I can say is, that this company is very serious and all their testings aproven and absolutely reliable. !! Susa & Maros

	[előzmény: (312) Tessie, 2007-06-19 21:39:51]

Zöldfülű

outsider13

Tagság: 2006-09-09 13:50:57
Tagszám: #34698
Hozzászólások: 1961

313. Elküldve: 2007-06-19 21:58:16, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[131.]
Hi Tessie! Your words made me confused. Do you have any exact reason, example why your opinion is it what you wrote about Laboklin? It would be very strange for me, if a company offer an examination wich result isn't correct, and isn't sure? If you have it, and it isn't publicable, please write it to my email: [email protected] szerintem... bár én csak egy outsider vagyok Drágossy Zsolt leánykori névvel :) [Ezt a hozzászólást újraszerkesztették: 2007-06-19 22:09:11]

[válaszok erre: #315]	[előzmény: (312) Tessie, 2007-06-19 21:39:51]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

312. Elküldve: 2007-06-19 21:39:51, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[132.]
Thank you outsider! I'm glad to hear about the decisions that have been made. PRA is a serious problem that cannot be ignored. However, one thing in what you wrote worries me a little. The comment about sending 12 samples to Germany. I hope that does not mean the testing will be done by Laboklin. As far as I know the test Laboklin offers is only a copy of the patented DNA test done by Optigen. The Laboklin test has not been proven to be accurate, so I would regard any dog tested by Laboklin as not tested at all. Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #313 #314]	[előzmény: (311) outsider13, 2007-06-19 12:30:05]

Haladó

outsider13

Tagság: 2006-09-09 13:50:57
Tagszám: #34698
Hozzászólások: 1961

311. Elküldve: 2007-06-19 12:30:05, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[133.]
Hi Tessie! As you can read many times, in the leatest months we discussed a lot about PRA. Based of the foregin datas we realized, that the kuvasz breed affected heavily with PRA, so we must step in these problem. We started to organize to test Hungarian dogs. We will send 12 samples to Germany next week. Last Sunday we had a meeting in Várpalota, where we decided about our breeding programme. The decision contains next: Now we offer the PRA test for our breeders, and from first of January 2010 it will be necessary to get breeding license.

[válaszok erre: #312]	[előzmény: (310) Tessie, 2007-06-19 06:13:40]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

310. Elküldve: 2007-06-19 06:13:40, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[134.]
I see that in Minőségi tenyésztés there is some discussion of PRA. Could someone summarize what is being said? I'm afraid it is beyond the capabilities of my online dictionary. Thanks! Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #311]

Haladó

H. Taar Enikő

Tagság: 2006-09-06 20:54:41
Tagszám: #34601
Hozzászólások: 5614

309. Elküldve: 2007-05-29 21:18:02, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[135.]
Hi Tessie, in 417 the dogs are ( from left to right) Tétényszépe Beri Balu, HPJ male Tétényszépe Beri Adél Gacsaj Pesta Hadúr male Fehér Morcos Olgi We had a really nice time, it was a good show indeed. We took a lot of phptps, many of them quite humorous Képtáram

	[előzmény: (308) Tessie, 2007-05-29 18:14:40]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

308. Elküldve: 2007-05-29 18:14:40, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[136.]
In post #417 in Kiállítások, eredmények, who are the Kuvasz? Great pictures from the show! Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #309]

Haladó

veterán

Tagság: 2006-09-15 10:11:39
Tagszám: #34912
Hozzászólások: 6461

307. Elküldve: 2007-05-27 12:18:29, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[137.]
Dear Tessie I think Gyaur is the brother of Gyopár. (parents: Vértesi-Selymes Omár x Tücsökudvari Betty) He is 3 years old. Tanks your news. I am happy because, Gyaur was BOB in World dog show. Vértesi - Selymes Kuvaszok

	[előzmény: (306) Tessie, 2007-05-26 06:35:27]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

306. Elküldve: 2007-05-26 06:35:27, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[138.]
Who are the parents of VERTESI SELYMES GYAUR? And how old is this Kuvasz? It won something (BOB?) in Mexico City today: http://www.worlddogshowmexico07.com.mx/resulwds/resultados.php?dia=25 Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #307]

Haladó

ku- assa

Tagság: 2006-08-10 22:34:19
Tagszám: #33606
Hozzászólások: 3401

305. Elküldve: 2007-05-23 21:02:44, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[139.]
Hi Tessie! Akbash writes and article in the " A Kutya" magazine. He is a conservation engineer. The articles are in the " A kuvasz: cikkek érdekességek..." topic. Do you have any similar american articles about guardian dogs primarily of kuvaszok or komondorok? If you have we could be very happy to see its! Bye ! " Állj a határnál, híven, régi jelkép igaztalan világban az igaz, tiltó szoborként nyúlj el a küszöbre, FAJTÁM ŐRZŐJE, BÖLCS, MAGYAR KUVASZ" Kosztolányi Dezső-Hattyú kutyám http://kuassa.mindenkilapja.hu/

	[előzmény: (302) Tessie, 2007-05-23 02:29:16]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

304. Elküldve: 2007-05-23 02:45:17, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[140.]
I just showed Magda for the first time in something called Rally Obedience. At the novice level since we aren't very good yet (meaning Magda is not all that obedient ). At the novice level it is all performed on leash. There is a course laid out in the ring with signs. You must perform the exercise on each sign in order. You earn points depending upon how well each exercise is performed. Read more about it here: http://www.akc.org/events/rally/getting_started.cfm Magda needs 2 more qualifying scores to earn a title in rally. Below is something I sent to Kuvasz-L recently with links to pictures of the rally trial held by the Rio Hondo Kennel Club in Pomona, California on May 5. Some of you may not like the way Magda looks--I gave her a bath the day before!!! I do like a clean dog and she was shedding her coat. So I tried a high-speed blower at the grooming shop to try and shed out all the dead coat at once. This did not work!!!! She still had plenty to shed all over me for the next couple weeks. Last exercise, moving down, when Magda was getting up (and I was SO happy she did it!!!!): http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/rly050507/slides/IMG_7833.html Too bad you can't see all the white hair blowing all over the place!!!! We left a trail wherever we went (my van is full of Kuvasz hair and so is the kitchen).;) Karen Rawers with Pax: http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/rly050507/index21.html Pax and friends: http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/index2.html http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/index3.html Some Magda candids here (7789 is finding the best scratchy spot, oooooooh): http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/index4.html Gonna pull out more of her shedding coat!: http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/slides/IMG_7790.html Magda: http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/slides/IMG_7873.html More Magda: http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/slides/IMG_7875.html One more you-know-who (Pax is sitting behind her): http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/slides/IMG_7876.html Magda and Dora (Gail has on a blue skirt): http://www.cameraanimal.com/events/ob050507/index6.html Melissa and Magda [email protected]

Haladó

Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

303. Elküldve: 2007-05-23 02:30:26, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[141.]
No reports I've seen in a while about Kaszon. How is he doing? He seemed to have such a great sense of humor. A lovely puppy! Melissa and Magda [email protected]

Haladó

Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

302. Elküldve: 2007-05-23 02:29:16, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[142.]
Hi Eromi and Ku-Assa, Thanks for the information. Interestingly enough, I think there is a Kuvasz named Vértesi-Selymes Nábob already in this country. The pictures of the Kuvasz working around the sheep are excellent! Please keep them coming. I hope someone writes and article in a magazine about this project. Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #305]

Haladó

ku- assa

Tagság: 2006-08-10 22:34:19
Tagszám: #33606
Hozzászólások: 3401

301. Elküldve: 2007-05-22 21:36:51, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[143.]
Hi Tessie! This is a kuvasz monitoring in Slovakia near the border of Hungary. There are many grey woolfs at that teritory. We are interested at how the kuvaszok guard the sheeps. My friend Akbash is the founder of this monitoring. Bye ! " Állj a határnál, híven, régi jelkép igaztalan világban az igaz, tiltó szoborként nyúlj el a küszöbre, FAJTÁM ŐRZŐJE, BÖLCS, MAGYAR KUVASZ" Kosztolányi Dezső-Hattyú kutyám http://kuassa.mindenkilapja.hu/

	[előzmény: (299) Tessie, 2007-05-21 23:29:31]

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Eromi

Tagság: 2006-03-13 14:16:23
Tagszám: #28354
Hozzászólások: 15017

300. Elküldve: 2007-05-22 06:44:52, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[144.]
Vértesi-Selymes Nábob Betyár (kan ) Erdőszéli Fehér Ördög Tisza Tisza (szuka )

	[előzmény: (299) Tessie, 2007-05-21 23:29:31]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

299. Elküldve: 2007-05-21 23:29:31, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[145.]
In post #108 by Eromi in Kuvaszok és farkasok, who is the Kuvasz with all the sheep?!! Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #300 #301]

Haladó

zazholm

Tagság: 2006-10-02 04:21:15
Tagszám: #35462
Hozzászólások: 8780

298. Elküldve: 2007-05-13 07:34:57, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[146.]
Hi Tessie , There arnt both kuvasz,the black one is a bastard,just he look like as a kuvasz. My opinion is that ! Best regards Your Imre Képtáram

	[előzmény: (297) Tessie, 2007-05-13 05:31:52]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

297. Elküldve: 2007-05-13 05:31:52, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[147.]
What is the story behind the black Kuvasz? Are both parents Kuvasz? Or is one maybe a Mudi????? Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #298]

Haladó

H. Taar Enikő

Tagság: 2006-09-06 20:54:41
Tagszám: #34601
Hozzászólások: 5614

296. Elküldve: 2007-05-04 21:21:20, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[148.]
Hi Melissa, this is simply terrible, I am really sorry to hear such bad news. Thanks God you have been luckier than those poor people. I can imagine how they might feel now. Take much care anyway, I keep my fingers crossed for you all! Képtáram

	[előzmény: (295) Tessie, 2007-05-04 08:26:54]

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Tessie

Tagság: 2006-10-13 07:07:29
Tagszám: #35861
Hozzászólások: 119

295. Elküldve: 2007-05-04 08:26:54, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[149.]
Some of you might have noticed that I have not been posting lately. There is a good reason for that, and it is because I've been paying attention to the terrible situation with pet food recalls in the USA. Thousands of pet foods (including both canned and dry kibble) have been recalled due to contamination with melamine and cyanuric acid from grain-based protein sources (such as wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate) imported from China. Thousands of American dogs and cats have already died from acute kidney failure caused by the food contamination. You can read about it here: http://www.petconnection.com/blog/category/2007-food-recall/ The dry dog food I give my dogs (Eagle) does not use any grains imported from China. So we have been fortunate. Ximanya in fact had her annual blood test right around the time the recalls began. However, the vet said her liver and kidney values were great! Especially for a 12 year old dog. So I had that information to reassure me when this started, and I didn't need to take her in just to be safe. But many people have not been so lucky. They were trying to do the best for their dogs, only to find that some of these "premium" brands were using some very cheap ingredients and were actually manufactured in the same plant as the cheapest brands. To say the least, this did not make people happy! Melissa and Magda [email protected]

[válaszok erre: #296]

Haladó

Mangaman

Tagság: 2006-11-25 13:38:00
Tagszám: #37704
Hozzászólások: 584

294. Elküldve: 2007-04-13 22:02:30, The Kuvasz- Our National Heritage	[150.]
Unfortunately there are too many of them! You should visit a Hungarian dog show to get know these people! "Minden nemzet, mely elmúlt kora emlékezetét semmivé teszi vagy semmivé lenni hagyja, saját nemzeti életét gyilkolja meg." (Kölcsey Ferenc) www.neobullterrier.com

	[előzmény: (293) Tessie, 2007-04-12 04:19:53]

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